I was shocked. Some days on home inspection days you fret a little because you just know there are issues but yesterday I didn't even squirm.
The house was built in 2005 and appeared "solid".
Until the Home inspector turned on the water and everything (except the bathroom sinks) started leaking like a sieve. Including toilets. Including a hose bib. Including pipes in walls. Including the roof (well turning the water on didn't cause that one!) Including the kitchen sink.
Here is the moral of the story for any buyer in any state: GET A HOME INSPECTION!
I always recommend one and I always leave it up to the buyer to decide if they can live with the "issues" especially in these "as-is" homes sold these days.
Even if you think the home is "solid".
Especially if it is a "newer" home. Newer homes here that were sold at the height have issues because they were slapped up by builders and maybe bought by "investors" who rented them out and didn't turn in minor issues to warranty - because the renters never told them - then they became bigger issues later. Especially after a home sits vacant in the elements without utilities.
Definitely if it is a "distressed" property with deferred maintenance.
I think the fee is a small price to pay to alert you to potential disaster in the future and hopefully you have a home inspection contingency to get you out of your contract in the event things go horribly wrong.
Even if you lose that inspection fee & end up walking away from that home - you may find yourself saving loads of money in the long run.
I'd be interested in hearing about your worst inspection. As for this house I'm not surprised it would have issues since it appears that it was vacant and distressed. Good luck with that one.
Wow, good thing you got that bit of news right away. Plumbing repairs and all the work that goes with it can easily take a big chunk of money.
No to mention wet areas as they bdry can produce mold.
Renee - well, the worst inspection must have been a doozy. I just can't imagine why a buyer would not spend the money to know what they are getting. BUt it happens. So what was the outcome?
Jeff
LOL Frank, My worst involved water too but the moisture meter picked it up moisture in the cabinets and the backflow valve shot water up like a fire hydrant. I think it was safe to say that EVERYTHING leaked in that house.
Paul: A black substance was found on the studs that held the house up when the drywall caved in from just sticking the moisture meter in we could see it!
Jeff: Walking and starting over. I really don't blame them on this one. The pipe in the wall that holds the house up that was leaking was the deal killer I believe.
Rene - Sound advice, and a perfect example of why home buyer's should ALWAYS have a home inspection, even with new(er) construction! I had one just like this, the pipes had frozen and the water was coming out of the walls. It was ugly, but it was repaired AND reinspected and eventually closed.
Good point. I had a client who thought he was a good enough inspector. Fortunately for him just before the inspections period was to expire we went to the house to review some details. A storm came in and there were 4 areas of leaks from the roof. Needless to say he walked on that one. The next house he followed my advice and hired a professional.
Judy: No way seller is going to repair this one, it's going to get a healthy price reduction and end up going to a cash buyer!
Dennis: Even if they "know" it is still best to hire someone who works in the current environment and knows the builder, the tract and the potential issues. I really love one home inspector here in particular who seems to have the "inside scoop" with potential problems in each tract. This guy has been around the block once or twice! It's like hiring a good realtor who understands market conditions. Your guy knows now!
Excellent point. I once had a two year old home under contract. There was a minor disclosure that turned out to be a major issue. Always, Always, get a GOOD home inspection. Good home inspectors deserve to get paid well. This is a huge investment.
Did the inspector think it was malicious damage or just shoddy workmanship? Hopefully the buyers can retain their earnest money and purchase a home that dosen't have as many major problems.
Renee, I think that inspections on "as is" homes are even more important than house where some disclosure has occured. Even if it is only going to amount to a huge "honey-do" list, this information will be invaluable later to the buyer----sooner or later they are going to know about all of this stuff. And "later" the repairs will likely cost a lot more.
Homes need to be maintained and the cost of repairing this type of home can be phenomenal. I've been on home inspections that have taken more than 10 hours, they need a detailed look especially the older homes, new construction, abandoned or mistreated ones.
of course...every buyer needs to inspect the home before purchase.
Alan: And their seemingly "big" fees don't seem so big in the long run!
Leolinda: Deferred maintenance that probably could have been taken care of by warranty but was allowed to get out of control. We don't even have seller's sig and a 10 day due diligence for home inspection so I am not concerned - they will get $$ back!
Charles: Very true statement!
Yvette: YES!
James: Yes they do!
Renee, I agree, you gotta pay that small fee for a home inspection...it is soo worth the peace of mind!
I agree that spending a few hundred dollars on a home inspection is money well spent when you could discover problems that will cost in the thousands of dollars to repair.
Very odd problem given you don't have the problem of freezing pipes as cold weather states do. Wonder what caused it?
Renee, Vacant homes often endure the added stress of temperature extremes when the HVAC is turned off.
Generally it's not as damaging here in the west as on the east coast.
Have a great Labor Day weekend,
Steve
Agree with you 100%, Renee. The price of a home inspection is small in comparison to money saved in dealing with material defects had the sale gone through.
Renee, that does sound like a bit of a nightmare! I had a townhome that was a few years old, but the pipes had burst and there was no ceiling, no flooring, from obvious water damage. HUD had repaired the pipes, luckily, and they bought it. I was wondering if your buyers walked....and see they did!
Renee - Excellent Advice! Home inspections are a must regardless of the age or appearance of the home. The fee is definitely a small price to pay if the home has major and even some minor issues.
So you're saying that the home inspector turned on the main water valve? Sounds to me like you had an inexperienced home inspector or a home inspector who doesn't carry any business insurance. I can't get the appropriate insurance to turn on (or off!) water, gas, and electricity on someone else's property, and frankly it's dangerous to do so without knowing the specific reason for shutting the systems down.
Only a fool skips the home inspections (and I have some do that to save the money). Loosing a few hundred on a home inspection beats loosing hundreds of thousands on a bad home.
Renee, I always suggest a home inspection and give examples of some things that have been found during a home inspection. This was really a nighmare for the buyer, and understand why they would walk from this one.
Kristen: Again, true that!
Morgan: *OR* will cause even futher issues beyond the thousands of dollars!
drew: I believe it is construction defect that could have been turned into builder under warrantay. Heat damages things also :)
Steve & Joel, YEP!
Bruce: Uh huh!
Joan: They did walk but for the beter IMHO.
Michelle: Cannot be reiterated too many times!
Russel: The main in the house and since many preservation companies "flip the switch" just for caution I always get written permission to turn it on for inspections.
Gene: And again, wise words!
Renee: This happened to a buyer I represented last year. It was an REO and the buyer was responsible for hiring a plumber to dewinterize the house. As soon as he turned on the water main, there was a huge leak in the master bathroom shower that you could hear trickling down inside the walls. What a nightmare!
Renee,
Thanks for the great post. I know of a senior that bought a house for cash for $51,000 without an inspection and moved in last week to find out the Air Conditioner doe not work. She called me to get a equity line to get $8,000 for a new Air Conditioner. She is on a fixed Australian Pension around $850 US a month I cannot get her financing due to not able to verify income that does not go up and down with the money exchange. A shame she did not have better advise from the Realtor on the need for a home inspection especially with a home that was built in 1964. You have to know there will be problems.
A bank should agree to fix those kinds of issues related to habitability if requested in a inspection notice. Otherwise the buyer can also move on. Good that the buyer took your advice on completing an inspection.
Renne
In these hotter climates the seals and valves dry out when the water is not ran then when the water is turned on there is a good chance they will leak. Thanks for this blog as many times you tell people this and they don't believe it. Once the seals and valves dry out they need to be replaced. Have a great weekend!
I couldn't agree more, a home inspection is essential. If buyers do not want to have one, perfectly fine, however, I always have them sign a waiver.
Hi Renee. Sounds like the 3 Stooges built that house. BTW, what was your #1 worst inspection? Worse than this one?
Scott Miller, Realty Associates, Boca Raton, FL
could agree more...even when a buyer thinks they are CERTAIN there are no issues, my mantra is the same: "Do you REALLY want to take that big a risk on the biggest investment of your life? I do not." It's been so long since someone pushed back on that, but, in today's market, I think I'd make the inspection my closing gift!
In all my jobs in real estate that have involved interaction with new agents, I emphasize home inspections For one thing it is one of four requirements to CYA us with our E&O insurance. I believe in educate, educate, educate. From the moment you meet a buyer client, start talking about the value of the inspection. New homes can be especially troublesome. Yard grading has been a recent sort of "fad" in my area. Builders are NOT taking care of this, and the new owner will pay the price. I also don't like when agents promote the "lowest priced" inspector. Now, a great inspector can have great prices, but that is not the norm. If I suspect genuine problems, I want a Registered Professional Engineer who will cost more, but is worth his weight in gold if there is a problem. I've had two year old homes with the furnace installed backward in the attic. Oh, sure it turned on if you tried that, but you had to go into the attic to discover the access for cleaning and repairs was on the eave side and impossible to reach. It required the builder to remove stairs to attic, part of sheetrock in ceiling. Imagine the expense had this buyer not had inspections. Another one year old home had defective a/c - 2 units, both bad but putting out cool air. We're not doing our jobs if we don't emphasize doing inspections, and if they still don't want them, get it in writing that you advised them to do one.
I had a 5 yr old house under contract. Inspection revealed that the drains for BOTH of the showers had never been hooked up and drain water had been dumping under the house for 5 yrs. Where was the building inspector when that thing was built?!?!
And dont forget the termite inspection! Boy it's refreshing to see all these agents happy about a horrible Home Inspection, lol... Most inspectors we work with dread turning in a bad report for fear that the agent will be pissed and not use them again. Now I'm not saying that they would sugar coat or overlook anything it's just the fear of the bad report and the thought of the client backing out on the agent. I believe most agents have their clients best interest in mind but their are a few we are not quite so sure about. Especially when they call to order a CLEAR termite report because they are short on time. I have asked do you just want us to drive by ? I think that brings them down to reality and they can except a conducive condition or two. Like I said 99% of the agents we work with actually do care and it shows all the way through to closing!
Renee, on a 05 property I bet you were in shock. You're lucky to have your inside scoop inspector, worth his weight in gold. New or older I agree, I'd rather spend the money on a home inspection upfront than be surprised later!
Thank you for reminding me that an inspection might always be a good idea and that I am not qualified to judge whether this is a home that needs one or not!
If you ever only learn and remember one thing from your first day in real estate, it is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS strongly recommend a thorough professional home inspection. And #2 is: don't forget about RADON.
Seriously people what are we doing out there?
One thing I make sure to discuss with Buyers, if they make such a suggestion, is to think very, very carefully before choosing a relative or a friend as their inspector. By all means they should ask their trusted person to accompany them to the inspection, and to feel free to put questions to the inspector. But to use an independent person (proven by reputation, one assumes) who is also covered by Errors and Ommissions Insurance, is the Buyers' best protection against obvious problems, late-appearing problems, or problems missed for any other reason.
I am sure I am not the only Realtor to have witnessed (2nd hand, actually) the end of a beautiful friendship.
Buyers I knew of, who actually chose to "save commission" by buying without a Realtor, directly from a Seller, also "saved money" by having a friend do their inspections. Less than a year later, I found myself listening sympathetically in the Supermarket, to tales of termites missed, structure collapsing, well too close to house to permit aggressive treatment, tiny grandfathered lot too small to make new well simple .... Oh, what a tale of woe! They lost their friendship and a whole lot of money.
I have been lucky in that none of my buyers have ever turned down doing that physical inspection. They do understand that if they choose not to do one, whatever shows up afterwards really was the "buyer beware" scenario.
I have a sale right now with a home built in 1924 and I have never sold any homes built before 1960, thus I already knew to expect problems. the inspection showed that copper had been run to the house, but no further, and all the galvanized was rusting out and leaking everywhere. New electrical had been run to the outside of the home, and no further. There had been a small addition added to the home behind the kitchen and a new foundation had been put on 3 years ago BUT the crawl space under the kitchen had never been filled in or backfilled and at anytime that extension could just drop in taking the back side of the home with it. And to top it all off, when the new foundation was put on, there were no sewer vents installed anywhere, so the odor was quite evident at the entire back of the home...
My buyers wanted every item fixed, they took a contractor out there to provide an estimate to the sellers for the repairs. The sellers said they would get it fixed themselves, nope, we wanted licensed contractors to do the work and provide proof of it all. The sellers realized that they would never be able to sell their charming little home if they didn't do the work, so licensed contractors did it all, we have the completion, scope of work, invoices and I had checked out the companies prior to giving acceptance for this.
My buyers are thrilled, the home is more like new then they thought they would ever get. Can you just imagine if they had declined to have the home inspection prior to purchasing????
Hi Renee, If this house was part of a larger development it may be that others will suffer the same fate !
Amen Renee. You never know what's lurking and just because it may be pretty, i.e. a new or newer home, doesn't mean it's sound. Carrie
Renee: Don't worry...be happy! Your clients MIGHT have purchased without an inspection...who do YOU think they would blame for NOT getting an inspection?
Let me guess...I got it...I got it...YOU!
If my customers decide to pass on an inpection, I use an incredible "hold harmless agreement" AND...well prior to closing...
I give them an inspection as a "closing gift".
I can only imagine the risk involved with buying a home and not having an inspection done. It is almost as bad as buying a home wiiithout a buyers agent.
I couldn't agree more, and always let buyers know how very important it is. We make them sign a waiver if they choose not to, or want to do the inspection themselves.
Here is some sound advise from one of my previous blogs. The seller should have an inspection done before it goes on the market, why would a home seller want to have a home inspection ? Any defects can be fixed, or repairs can be made prior to putting it on the market at a realistic cost. Before buyers come along and use defects and repairs for negotiation of the asking price, holding up the process and lowering the listing price. Consider a Thermal Imaging pre- inspection report, and provide a public link to that report, by advertising that your listing has already been inspected, and has no surprises. Buyers can see the inspection report and be one step closer in scheduling a walk-through. Costs- about the same or lower than a traditional inspection, between $150 and $300 depending on the size of the house and the type of inspection. A thermal imaging inspection is the new GREEN way to have a home inspected, which is another plus. By the way, I am not a home inspector, but I play one on TV.
Sounds life the house my wife and I are buying, a beautiful custom home built in 2005. The pipes were allowed to freeze and when the inspector turned on the water, in seconds water was everywhere. Also, there is a leak under every sink. In the current real estate market, an inspection is crucial.
I will admit to being biased, but I believe home inspection or one of the most vital parts of the transaction. The house itself is the core of and reason for the whole transaction. It is the basis of the entire exchange of funds between buyer and seller. Why would any one invest in it without knowledge of its soundness?
Fair enough to offer a property "as is" but it is vital to the potential purchaser that they be aware of what "as is" is!
Along with Russel, I would caution, and I think insurance companies would agree, that no valve or switch not considered a typical user control should be operated by the Home Inspector without explicit permission. I wish it could always be in writing but I understand the difficulties in that. There are just too many times as a sale approaches that some work be going on that the inspector may be unaware of to take that chance.
Fees are always a subject of discussion. The NAR site used to say a typical home inspection would be expected to take about three hours and cost about $300. That was nearly a decade ago. In my area I average, year round, 125 mile round trip per inspection, which means about 2 hours of windshield time plus the actual inspection. That is about 5 hours that need to be billed for each inspection. In most areas I am acquainted with inspection do not go for $500 even a decade after the NAR article. For those of you familiar with the concept of overheads and the variety of expenses involved in running any business I'm sure you understand that the fee is not profit going right into the inspectors pocket if he/she is a professional.
I am certain a registered professional engineer, PE, could perform a good home inspection with the proper training. Speaking as a graduate engineer with over 20 years experience as a construction project engineer/manager I would have to admit that without additional training in the specifics of home inspection I would have had difficulty performing a top notch inspection. The engineering degree background made it easier to acquire the training but did not replace it. A PE certification may enhance an inspectors abilities but is neither necessary nor sufficient to being a good inspector.
Thank you all for weighing in ~ I am really loving to see the home inspectors weigh in. I especially love the pre-inspection comments, comments on what to look for in an inspector and the advice of additional more specific inspections such as mold or termites (not too common here but still...)
#30 Scott: YUP my worse was worse than this. The water infiltrated kitchen cabinets.
I really wish that the inspections would be passed on as disclosures in our current distressed property environment so buyers could have tools to make decisions on "as-is" properties!
I always suggest a pre-listing home inspection, if possible. I'd rather know about issues before hand than get a nasty surprise when we have it under agreement. You can use the pre-listing home inspection as a marketing tool and it gives the sellers time to repair those items that could cause a buyer to walk away
Just because a house is new or recently built is no indication on how it was built. This is a buyer's largest purchase that will ever make (usually) don't cheap out on the home inspection. It is critical to know what you are buying.
We bought a vacation home a few years ago and didn't discover (even WITH a home inspection) until after we bought it that there was a major water issue with loads of water pooling under the house (at the bottom of a hill next to a lake). How did we find this out? We needed to have a back patio re-done, and the masonry guy said when he dug into the patio to start taking it out, water shot up like a geyser from the ground. He ended up having to run a pipe from under the house to the lake to drain all the water -- and that little discovery explained whey there was mold halfway up the basement walls. :>(
I agree with Russel and Marshall. I never turn on water, gas and electricity. I will happily instruct the Realtor or client to turn on valves, etc. If there is a "water feature" cascading down the stairs, I will photograph it and state Realtor/client turned on the water. In the California contract/agreement, the utilities must be on upon accepted offer and through the escrow period. My standard disclaimer when the gas is off: "The gas meter is locked/off. Unable to inspect the furnace, water heater, fireplace and oven. Fee for this return trip is $150.00 or client may wish to solely rely on seller and/or listing agent disclosures."
This is so true! Thank you for the post!
Thanks for the post. We always recommend a home inspection. If nothing else it feels good to have a licensed person tell my buyer that there is nothing wrong with the home. Julie and I actually went though a recent deal with a client that was very analytical with regards to everything in the transaction and we went through 13 inspections on the property! We had a sewer, chimney, electrical, Hud consultant, foundation expert, roofer, multiple contractors...you get the picture.
It was a bit more work to get everything coordinated, but our client did end up knowing exactly what they were getting into and it was a good experience for Julie and I to go through it all with them.
Oh, yes, inspections are a MUST! One of my favorites was when the water was turned on for inspection and it started raining from the light fixtures. That was fun!
Great advice :)
WOW Renee! I just heard from a friend who just moved in after a year. Their "realtor" discouraged an inspection, stating "oh this property is a hot ticket. If you wait, you could lose it." Well, needless to say, the inspection revealed MAJOR issues with the septic/well. To the tune of $50,000. They did not purchase until this was corrected by the sellers (who live in CA, it was their parent's home who were deceased). Now they are very happy to have pursued the inspection & it was soooo worth it!
Some people are just too darn picky. I mean, they walked because of a few leaks? Really! :)
I had a buyer who decided against an inspection - saying she could do it better herself.
This was after a previous inspection stated that the attic fan was working on a house that had NO attic fan... Obviously, the inspector hadn't checked the attic at all. Then that same house had some strange plumbing issues - with the end result of my client deciding there wasn't much sense in paying an inspector for a false report.
It wasn't a good decision. The 2nd house requied about a year's worth of fixing everything from the heating system to the wiring to getting rid of the carpenter ants that were eating the roof stringers.
What she needed both times was a good home inspector.
yikes...I recommend them for new homes too...never know, it may have been framed up haphazrdly..otoh, the inspection is only as good as the inspector.
Renee, oh my...what a story! You're absolutely right on the importance of home inspections.Your inspection just further confirms that you can't judge a book by its cover!
Perfect example of why every purchase needs an inspection. I almost think that in some locations, the newer the home ... the worse the construction.
I wouldn't have expected that either. Good thing for the inspection and good thing you "made" them do it.
Home inspections are mandatory with me , and I'm not the FHA. If a buyer rells me they choose not to have an inspection, I counsel them and if that won't do, I ask them to sign a notarized document stating that I suggested the inspection and they declined. In writing. In over 14 years I have never had to actually have such a document signed. Buyers always get the point.
The inspection is in the best interest of all parties involved.
Very interesting problem... Personally I am a little surprised the home inspector took it upon himslef to turn the water on when it was cleary turned off at the source! As Realtors, do we not have a responsibility to ensure that inspectors procede with their task at hand provided that it is done so in a manner that does no harm to the property... ie leave the home as it was found.
When it is known that the water has been turned off, we should write up a purchase contract with language putting the responsibiltity to restore water squarely on the seller or in the case of an REO, the lender. Winterization here in Massachusetts is common, so a good buyer's agent would make the offer to purchase contingent on having the property "de-winterized" prior to inspection or closing including making any and all needed repairs to plumbing plus returning any walls and ceilings disturbed to complete repairs. If the seller/lender is unwilling to do so, then assum the very worst when counsling the buyer in writing up an offer. Call me a little concervative, but under no condition sould anyone other than the Seller or their representative touch a main water valve. Doing so might be opening yourself up to some very costly liability.
Higher Standards . . . Memorable Results!
Bart Foster, Realtor®, SRES®, ePro®
Keller Williams Realty Boston - Metro
http://bartsells.com
Thanks for sharing. I like having example stories to tell. It's another reason to have more-than-the-minimum down payment amount, because you may need to spend on more than one set of inspections!
I could never understand the concept of a home inspection being optional. Kinda like buying a used car without a mechanic, huh!
Renee - It is always always in my discussion to get a home inspection. Newer is not always best. You are so right. Sometimes these builders slap together and go on to the next. Sad but true.
Renee that home was a disaster. Who built it? I would like to hear about your worst inspection ever.
A home inspection is so important that if the buyer declines to do a home inspection our office has them sign a waiver that explains the importance of the inspection, the bhuyers check a box that states they decline and sign it.
Renee,
I can not believe that in these days of HGTV where viewers see what can happen without an inspection that buyers are not getting them done. If they were going to buy a used car they would have a mechanic take a look at it. But their biggest single purchase in their life? No inspection is crazy!
Great post. I worked with a home inspector for a short time. If you get a good one, they will be able to let you know what repairs need to be done and what you can expect down the road. I am a big fan of them.
I am sure this is not unusual, but there is a subdivision in my area that was built in the boom with the houses being victims of the 'build it as fast and as cheap as possible" mentality. It was not unusual for these brand new houses to get questionable home inspections. In a few years, these houses are going to be a challenge.
I always tell my clients that a good home inspector is worth their weight in gold.
Hiring a reputable home inspector is always money well-spent regardless of the age or perceived condition of the property.
We in Wisconsin operate like Bart (#66). I note which utilities are turned off when showing, and require written permission to have a qualified professional turn the utilities back on before the home inspection. (no exceptions!)
The simplest example I give buyers is a foreclosure I showed with the main power turned off. At some time, someone had stripped some of the copper wire out of the house by just cutting random lengths out of the basement ceiling, including the line to the furnace. Don't want to flip that main breaker on!
John (#61) makes an exellent point -- having worked as sheetrock hanger in past -- there are a lot of homes with less than square framing - which can throw lots of other things off as well. Not to mention the contractor trying to save a little money and not putting the metal plate on the stud, over the pipe - so owner puts drill into water pipe.
Renee - Always always ALWAYS get a home inspection. ALWAYS.
Did I mention ALWAYS?? :)
Great post.
Oh My! Yes a home inspection is a must! The other "hidden" issues in our market here is also previous homeowner damaging the house intentionally!
Maybe even hidden sabatoge! They get so mad they are losing their home to foreclosure they think they will "get" the bank. Sad but true here in Las Vegas as you know.
I agree absolutely! I always recommend a home inspection to everyone on every home. Many times the buyer will ask my opinion of a home's condition. I try to point out the obvious but I always say a home inspection will find out things that you and I miss. My company even has a form that suggests a buyer get a home inspection. On top of that I always recommend a home warranty as a catch all in case the buyer or the inspector misses something.
Renee,
All buyers should have a home inspection done, it's well worth it. Do one even on a new house. Your blog again proves how important it is.
I bookmarked your blog for the next time a buyer says "oh its a new house, we don't need an inspection". Thanks for the backup!
This is a great post. Certainly well worth the feature.
Was this the "second worst home inspection ever" or the "second worst home you have ever had inspected"? From the sound of things it sounds like the inspection was fine; it was the house that was bad.
Why did all the plumbing leak? My guess (partly based on your location) is the house was not winterized and the plumbing system was allowed to freeze.