So Your Buyers Agent Doesn't Want To Show You Properties?
Here's my opinion of agents who request that their buyers contact the listing agents to show them homes...
A user on our website who had been 'with us' on our site for a month indicated that she and her husband are in the market to buy a home in one of our specialty areas. The buyer sent contact information, including phone number. When the time was perfect, they decided that they wanted to see only one house. That house was not our listing but, as you know, was on our site due to our IDX feed.
The couple and their family had driven by the house to check it out from the street and fell in love. They simply MUST see this property before their family leaves town. I get the call--"Okay, we're ready to see it!"
After several conversations about agency and confirming that this couple is NOT working with an agent, I referred them to one of our agents--ready to go! Pre-qualified, no agent representation and a home to show in her area of expertise. A perfect fit, right?
During their visit, it was discovered that the potential buyers know the neighbors, who wound up buying one of the referral agent's listings. They parted on good terms, excited to forge a nice working relationship. Following the showing, the potential buyer emailed our agent to thank her for showing the property but, kindly refused to sign a buyer's agency with her because she ALREADY HAS AN AGENT! As a matter of fact, it's the same agent who sent a buyer to our agent's listing that they discussed earlier in the day.
Their agent NEVER laid eyes the home that she sold next door for those buyers! She lives 35 minutes away and has her clients phone the listing agents to view the properties in our area! Rather than refer the clients out, she expressly complains that she knows nothing about the area and that she won't make the trek to Charlotte to show homes so the listing agents can do her work for her. She also does NOT attend inspections with her buyers--again, she allows the listing agent to do her work for her! Also, she's obviously not even sending her clients listings because they're searching for homes on OUR SITE! (And, what do you find there? Every IDX shared listing in our MLS.)
This is just wrong on SO many levels--not even to mention the burden on the other agents. This MIA agent has completely neglected her fiduciary duties to HER clients. If she does not know the area, how does she oversee the due diligence for HER clients?
How are her clients okay with this type of service? We're paid well to do what we do. How can any client accept this type of far-less-than-full-service?
I can tell you one thing, I refer out to her area but, will never refer a client to her--NEVER. Who knows how she manages clients in her own area? Perhaps it's not that she doesn't know the area, maybe she's working full-time at the mall!
(THE best Charlotte home search available - no kidding!)
Debe Maxwell, CRS/Realtor®/Broker
Broker@TheCharlotteScoop.com
Phone (704) 491-3310
That sounds like a familiar story to me. I always wonder why some buyers would put up with such an agent, but many do. It always shocks me.
Did I miss something? Didn't the potential buyer lie to you by saying they were not working with an agent?
How frustrating is this?
is that agent a member of your mls ? What about procuring cause ?? Seems to me you have a dispute to raise. Good luck --this certainly is a lazy agent ..and not following any ethics on so many levels. Fortunately Ive never been put in that situation! Have you spoken to her BIC??
If they write an offer with a home inspection contingency then make sure that the only way they can get into the house is if THEIR agent is present during the inspection. Being a nice guy only goes so far and if an agent can't fulfill the obligataions under their agreement with the buyer then the buyer needs to learn that they are not being properly represented.
Hi Debe --- isn't that a great business model? Let your buyers search another company's website and then call that company to arrange to have one of their agents show you property(it won't be too much time, right?). It's unfortunate that it happens but it does. I like Cindy Jones' suggestion of one aspect of dealing with an offer from these buyers should they choose to work with "their" agent.
Tim: ME TOO! How they put up with that horrible service is beyond me! Nice only goes so far--at some point, you need to do your JOB!
Van: We're fairly confident that the agent told them that they would have to say that in order to get the listing agents to show the property. Sad, isn't it?
Michele: Yes, she is and yes, we are! It's ridiculous to think that you can just sell homes from afar! Hey, I'm in NC and also have my SC license; since we are on the northern tip of SC, we typically sell in that area of SC. This would be like me selling on the coast in NC or SC and never even seeing the home--EVER! Makes no sense to me how the buyers can think that their agent is doing the job for them that she has been hired to do.
Cindy: That is a GREAT idea! Absolutely--thank you!
Michael: Maybe we're missing something here, huh?! I guess if we were licensed in all 50 states, we could do the same thing. I too, love Cindy's suggestion!
There should be an ethics restriction for this. Because we sell homes by the water and are 50 miles from Houston we get this all the time. It's wrong. Just wrong. We attempted to place in our listings a phrase: Agent must accompany client from first showing on to receive full compensation.
We got our hands slapped. But, that's because it was not in the original listing agreement. If we remember to place it there with the Seller's "okay" then it seems it's a deal. I recommend always doing this!
Love the post Debe. Am still in Wichita Falls taking care of my Aunt. *sigh* Still trying to post though. Now, go dig out those baby pics! Hugs, Deb
That is REALLY ballsy! I'm dealing with one of those types of agents, she has a property listed that's 45 minutes away from where she works :-(
WOW, Debe... I've seen (and heard of) agents sit at an open house telling the visitors to wander about and let him know if they have any questions, but I've not heard of one doing this. It is over the top really hard to understand how the buyers would be comfortable doing this as well. And they have to know if they're being coached!
I too like Cindy's suggestion, but I doubt it would work. I'm sure she has a "friend" in the area and they would just diss you more for being uncooperative...
Good Luck!
Debe, The answer is ...KICK BACK! That is why I believe Buyers do the run around and lie, cheat and steal from other agents ... lie about not having an agent, cheat the system, and steal time from agents who show the time. Shameful. This is exactly why we need to be firm on requiring the buyer broker agreement be signed. I'm sorry this happened to you and your team members.
I love Cindy's idea! Agents like that do such a dis-service to their clients and to our profession.
Debe - AAARRRGGGHHH!!! I hate seeing this happen, especially when the buyers are my borrowers. Because I'm a DRE licensed agent as well as an NMLS licensed MLO, I will periodically get asked by my borrowers to check some addresses in the MLS (I'm an associate member of a local MLS) for them or make some calls to listing agents. Whenever I inform them that they need to have their Realtor/agent do that for them, they'll either tell me that that their Realtor/agent doesn't have access to the local MLS or worse, that their Realtor/agent told them to have me do it. SERIOUSLY!!!
Needless to say, I will immediately ask them if they have a BBA with their Realtor/agent and if so, I will inform them of their Realtors/agents fiduciary duty to them. If they don't have a BBA, I politely suggest they find themselves another Realtor/agent and that I would be more than happy to refer them to a wonderful Realtor who would be happy to serve their real estate needs.
The worse part about so many of these scenarios Debe is that the lazy Realtor/agent is simply an out of area Realtor/agent who is either a relative or friend and these Realtors/agents are doing a grave disservice to their relative/friend by not referring them to a local Realtor/agent. Furthermore, some of these lazy and sleazy Realtors/agents flat out tell their relative/friend clients to lie to listing agents in order to see properties so that they can swoop in later to write the contract.
It's a despicable practice Debe and such a huge problem here in Los Angeles & Ventura counties that is actually getting worse. Sorry to hear it's a problem in your market too.
Debe-If the Buyers were dishonest about something as simple and straightforward as representation, you'd probably have bigger issues with them later. Too bad you gave them more time than appropriate.
Debe: The only way to prevent this is to have a buyer broker agreement signed before reaching the property. Have it signed on the hood of the car before entering or do not enter. This is not the norm for buyers agents, there are listing agents that do crappy things as well.
Wow, Debe...the only conclusion I can make is that the other agent briefed her buyer to lie to you? Again, wow. I think this might require a change in strategy and a "one time" buyer agency agreement in order to show the home without a full on agency agreement. I have been successful asking reticent buyers (reticent about signing a full on buyer agency agreement) to sign one which pertains to "only the properties I show them today" or even a specific address. At the end of the day I ask if they are happy with my services, is there anything they think I should have done which I did not do and then offer to do it all again tomorrow...with another one day agreement.
Only once did I find a buyer unwilling to sign for a day and guess what...pretty much the same scenario you describe!
Debe,
Sounds all to familiar. I try very hard not to work areas I am not familiar with unless the client insist I am involved. Even then I try to refer them telling them I will stay involved with the referral agent. This does happen way to much.
Oh Debe, that other agent is WRONG on so many levels! I just don't get it when agents think they don't have to WORK for their clients, and actually KEEP their clients.
Debe, naturally the other agent should not even be involved, especially with the comission. And don't those buyers realize that it's not good business for them or you to be handled in this manner? I always go, even when things are an hour away, I still at least show up!
Some Listing Agents in my area are putting commission comments right in the listing: 3% commission is the norm, but they'll add "must be present at all showings and inspections or commission shall be 1%". I've never tried it and wonder how enforceable it may be, but is sure does send a message, doesn't it?!!
I love the pictures that go along with this blog. I was getting more and more into the story just because of the pic of the person fuming on the computer, as I am sure you were in this situation! So weird that the clients went along with "the plan" the whole time, even telling you they didn't have an agent.
Debe, For someone of your high caliber, it is too bad the other agent is so lacking in proper concern for "their" clients. (PS it was good meeting you at RainCamp).
Unfortunately, we think many of us have to deal with these lazy,unethical agents. Didn't the buyer lie to you, was the agent a relative of the buyer, where does this agent fit into this scenario at all? Arrrrrgh!
Featured @ Club Chaos
It pains me to see how little work some people are willing to invest in their clients. This is not fair to the good agents who go the extra mile for the same pay.
Wouldn't procuring cause come into play at some point? Sure, this agent can end up writing the contract and maybe even get it accepted. But there's no way she should be paid, not when another agent showed the property after verifying there wasn't another agent involved. She would have one hell of a time proving procuring cause if the issue were raised, I would think.
Debe...I am sorry that this happened to you now. Once I also had that happened to me. I took the time and showed this young couple quite a few homes late into the evening since that was the only time that worked for them. A few days later they put the offer on one of the house that I showed them through an agent that their cousin recommended...eventhough this agent did not even see the house :-( It certainly left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I was thinking about this subject matter the other day. I wish the board would have forms for individual showings to establish procuring cause. Wouldn't that be grand? It would cut down on the agents who tell their clients to call the listing agent for showings!
Debe, call me controlling and hyper-involved but I'm NOT sending buyer clients out on their own or to use and abuse other agents. As you said, SO much wrong with that scenario....
Debe,
Cherise has faced this similar scenario as well. All the reasons for disappointment are adequately voiced in your blog comments. Congrats on another featured... g
We see this all of the time. Houston agets sending their buyers down here because they don't know the lake. It is in FOUR counties! Then they go back and write the offer with the other agent. Often times the showing agent gets paid nothing. I am FINALLY learning to get the buyers rep signed or only open the doors for MY listings.
This happened to me last year and I called the broker right before closing when the buyer showed up at the walk thru with ME only. Buyer's agent only intended to go to closing to get her $. I called her broker and offered a referral fee and told him he had a huge liability risk with her never even stepping foot in the door!!! Even for the walk thru!
Debe - sickening! Here you would have a case for procuring cause, would not have to pay the commish.
We have a place in our little MLS that specifies how much co op is offered to a Mesquite mls member, and how much is offered to a non member. When that happens in this area, the selling agent does not get paid much if not a member. And they usually do not find out till escrow is opened, because they do not have access to the part of the mls that specifies the comm paid.
The reasons that listing agents offer less to a selling agent who is 80 miles away (LV) is that the listing agent will likely do all the work, knows the area, the HOA provisions and contacts, etc.
I remember one outside area selling agent who was trying to direct her buyer to have the utilities turned on at COE. She could not find the gas company online or in the phonebook. We do not have gas here at all - Mesquite is all electric. :) And she wanted to know how to set up mail home delivery - we do not have home delivery, each neighborhood has a group of mailboxes.
The agent who does this must have a pretty convincing pitch they give to these buyers. They probably have some angle they are working pretty well, or they are attracting a buyer that simply doesn't care for the full service approach that most agents are going to give.
Hello Debe:
I read your posts often and think you have had more than your share of bad luck, hang in there.
One troubling conclusion I draw from this is that the buyer does not perceive or understand the value a real buyer's agent can make. The buyer thinks its all just commission saved. If the buyers knew what they were missing, they may feel differently.
I think everyone missed it...
There is a commission rebate in there somewhere...for the buyer.
That says something for making SURE a buyer's representation agreement be signed BEFORE showing a property. Looks to me like the buyers were complicit in this as well.
I like Cindy's idea as well. I would even tell them that right up front, along with some other things. Some people just shouldn't be in this business.
Eve #36 may have hit the nail on the head with this one.
This is just sad. It's almost as bad as just giving buyers the code to a lockbox and having them just go check it out (that happens here sometimes too). There's got to be an ethics complaint in here somewhere...
Debe, when I run into these type of agents & buyers, my blood pressure just rises. Reading your post I was re-living your and a few times my experiences. I am with you 100% I would never work with that agent. Great dialog with the comments:)
I had an few agents pull that on me in the past. Because they were my listings I obliged. But when it comes time for comps and attending inspections I let the "agent" (and I use that term loosely) do their job. If not they can choose to refer the client to me or make the trek to the listing they never saw or even knew anything about. Disgraceful at the least. Criminal at best.
Debe: I have 'sold 4 of my listings this year through open houses... their agents called me thereafter.. all good...'' One agent placed a bid, we are in contract... and the agent has yet to view the house... THAT I have a problem with.. I asked for a referral fee... she was incensed... well so am I.. LOL G
Debe,
Get a Buyer Broker Agreement signed for the specific house that you are showing. If the buyer refuses to sign, you refuse to show.
Debe, ugh...what an awful story. It's really bad when both the agent and buyer LIE to take advantage of the listing agents' time! I had a similar thing happen to me years ago, showing property to a couple over an entire weekend, and finding out later that the husband's MOTHER (who lived 2 1/2 hours away) stepped in and wrote the offer on one of the homes I showed them. The listing agent was someone out of my own office and the home ended up having multiple offers...and the one that was accepted was NOT from the mother! :)
Anyway, we ONLY work with buyers after signing a Buyer Broker agreement. It's really the only way to cover ourselves from people with no ethics or morals like the ones you described.
That's ridiculous. A complaint should be filed with her broker. Agents like that need to be expunged from the industry. They give us all a bad name. Best of luck to you Debe.
Hi Debe - I have refused to show homes - but it is generally to buyers who have proven to be erratic and in tire-kicker mode. I tell them to use open houses and that I expect due diligence BEFORE we strike out into new neighborhoods. The reason for this is a year of buyers running me ragged all over the place and merrily walking away after 60 + showings.
However, i NEVER tell them to call the LA - and I tell them to call me when they are ready to work a specific area. What you are describing is deceitful and ridiculous.
I also had the same thought as far as procuring cause, but also suspect there may be some type of kick back to the buyer which would be a RESPA violation.
Debe - Wow, wow, wow! Talk about ridiculous. Were they instructed to say they didn't have an agent?
This agent is unethical. If he wants to work with buyers, than he has to actually WORK with them!
Debe, when we lived in Orlando, agents started putting in the MLS private remarks that "agents who do not show the property will receive 1% commission." That stops that sort of behavior in its tracks. If it doesn't, then you get a better payday.Just put it in the listing agreement and you are covered. They also did the same thing for agents who didn't have an MLS lockbox key. Procuring cause is hard and lengthy to prove. This is simple and gets them where it hurts!
Sharon
Deb: We're seriously considering adding some type of verbiage to the agent remarks with regards to this behavior--simply ridiculous, isn't it?
Justin: Similar situation and still disturbing, for sure!
Bruce: Her "friend" should have been showing the home then! I think she's 'pooped' on so many agents in the area that it's now, "AGENT BEWARE!"
Kathleen: We also discussed that--likely the case here and illegal in our state.
Barbara-Jo: Exactly what we're working so diligently against too!
Donne: I think you're right on target here--the first client WAS a relative; that we are certain about. Imagine if they'll do that for AND to their own relative, how they treat other clients?! SUCH a shame--I feel sorry for these clients even though they lied. I feel that they are getting a kick-back and she told them the only way that they will receive the kick-back is if they do what they did to our agent. Hey, I believe in Karma--oh boy, DO I!
Wayne: You know, the other agent and I were discussing our time investment here--it wasn't that great. However we did learn a valuable lesson--buyers WILL be required to sign agency for the property shown. Period. To me, that lesson was worth the time investment to save other agents from having the same experience.
Jane: LOL That is exactly our solution to this problem! Great minds!
SarahGray: Yes and I can't imagine doing that for someone else. I'm wondering if they think about Karma? I do--and I often think of the Golden Rule too! ;-)
Larry: Great suggestion!
Diane: Oh, I'm not worried about ever having to show your clients homes for you--and you know you don't have to worry about mine either! That's just not 'how it's done!' Arrgh!
Craig: I don't have a problem when the agent phones me and asks--if they're on vacation and/or have a family emergency, etc. I'm happy to help them out--especially if it helps out my seller. But, I do believe that if something hidden was later discovered, these clients have every right to sue the you-know-what out of this pseudo-agent--and believe me, I hope they DO!
CTS: Thank doll! Much appreciated!
Brian: Oh, I don't think I have alot of bad luck! I'm very busy and just when I think I've seen everything, something like this comes up. I just feel badly for my agent who spent her valuable weekend time showing the property.
Ruthmarie: You and me both--NEVER! This is totally unacceptable and there is just nothing at all right in this scenario. I still haven't gotten over the anger to phone the buyer back and question her somemore on this topic!
Sharon: GREAT idea and one that I think we need to put into play here as well.
Thank you all for your comments. Writing this post helped me get rid of a little bit of frustration and your comments make me feel like I'm not off my rocker thinking that this is just SO wrong--like I said, on so many levels!
I don't mind showing my own listing on behalf of another agent if necessary, but I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.
Hi Debe - We don't know what type of agreement that the client / customer has signed with their buyer agent. It might be for limited services rather than full services.
Thanks for the post Debe. Ask this question: If you can not go with your client to see houses, are you truly a buyer's agent?? Good luck.
We ran into this yesterday. I'd been working with a buyer for the past week, getting him pre-qualified, etc. He wanted to see one of my listings yesterday and I was out of the area, so I sent my buyer's agent. He wants to write an offer on the home, BUT....with another agent. He hadn't even contacted this other agent yet. He said he was calling the listing agents to see the homes first because he didn't want to bother his agent. (Sigh). We had a nice, LONG talk after that. And yes, I'm writing the offer. :)
Debe - I've had this happen to me as well. I've had agents from out of the area who asked me to show their clients homes because they don't have access to our keybox system. How well can they know the area, if they aren't even a part of our MLS and how do they expect to get their commission paid as that is based on the MLS agreement?
The agent didn't want to drive 35 minutes? wow. Where I've chosen to live (in the country) I often have to drive 35 minutes to do anything. It's a different thing if that agent would have called the listing agent and requested the listing agent show the buyers a house and dangle a possible small referral if it goes through. I guess in a way this is better then the buyer agent just giving lockbox codes to buyers and telling them to go look at the houses. I've had that happen on my listings and discovered the agent had never been to the house at closing. I kept my mouth shut, but almost said what did you do to deserve 3% of this sale.
Because this happens with more "buyer's agents" than you care to know, with out-of-area agents or agents with a day job, some of the local agents here post in their listings that if they show the home to the buyer without their agent, the selling commission will be reduced. I have never tried it, but it's only fair.
I always ask someone that calls me on a property if they are working with an agent. If they say yes I tell them I cannot show them my property that they must contact their agent to see it. I tell them this is the law in Florida. If you read our ethics bylaws if someone tells you they are working with another agent you cannot say anything to them that might sway them to or from a home. Also you must not ty to take a client once they say they have an agent.
I have seen a Realtor get sued becaue they did show a home when their realtor was out of town. The realtor swore that the home they looked at was the right one and that the agent talked them out of it.
I want no part of even being construded that I tried to steal there client or that I gave there client unethical advice. So I will not and do not show other agents clients my home. Even at open houses if they tell me I just let them look and advise them if they have any questions they can ask there realtor to call me with them.
A lot of agents disagree with me on this but if I am going to show a listing to someone that I don't know and they call me about a particular house. I will not show it unless I have a buyers agency agreement and if they won't do an across the board one then I will do it house specific. I have had someone show up and refuse to sign the paper. At that point I refuse to show them the house. They always say- but you are already here... yes I am and if you are unwilling to sign this for this particular house- then I just wasted your time as much as you wasted mine- cause I won't open the door for you;)
I had an agent like her call me wanting me to let the inspector and buyers into my listing! I refused, saying I was tied up at that time, and by the way, that was her job and her buyers.....not mine! The buyers ended up missing the deadline for the inspection report, and she tried to blame me!
Debe,
I find this very common in the Charlotte marketplace. Agents who go on vacation and don't have someone covering their business. Buyers who find homes on the internet and won't bother their agent until they find the right one. I've even had buyers who are couples have the other one anonymously call for an appointment when I've told the first one that they need to have their own agent show the house.
First appointment with a buyer is always in the office and never showing a home. Pretty much solves the increasing problem of unqualified buyers and weeds out those that are mis-representing themselves or their situation. My schedule does not allow for call ups asking me to drop everything and run across town to show an unqualified buyer with no agency agreement a home they happened to drive by.
I agree with several of the people who commented regarding the procuring cause issue. I think you would clearly have a case. Even if the buyer signed a limited service agreement with his agent, I don't see where that would affect the definition of procuring cause.if this happened to me, I'm quite certain we would be heading off to arbitration. The difficulty you have, particularly since the buyer lied about not having an agent, will be proving that you got the buyer to the point of a "buy decision". The next pointer difficulty will be proving that the other agent interrupted the flow of events. I have heard of cases where the house was shown in the buyers really liked it and then call that evening and said "We are going to have my cousin write it up. She is just brand-new when we want to help her." The cousin lost that arbitration battle… And should have.
How do those agents ever keep clients, much less get new ones... I wish we had a way to hold their feet to the fire...Ie, If you don't don't show up at the showings or inspections you get a reduced share of the comission. Or none at all!! If I am doing all the work, I should be getting all the commission...There, I said it.
I have been on both sides of this issue (not because I refused to show my clients a listing). Sometimes clients 'go rogue' on us...I had clients call the listing agent for a showing before even telling me of their interest--they were out driving around. They had had a very bad experience with dual agency and had no interest in it. Once they determined that they wanted to see the house again, the contacted me. The listing agent was irritated but gracious when I explained the situation. They ended up buying the house.She lectured me, and I agreed with her, but in the end, she ended up with a sale that was good for her clients.
I have also had people call me for showings only to find out later (despite questioning) that they had an agent.I try to take the high road and protect myself better the next time.
We can only do so much to 'control' client behavior. Education is important, but sometimes they get away from us :).
Debe, I'll do that if an agent is in a pinch but many of us know some of these agents who do this kind of thing & they've lost their commission upon the complaint to the board...it does teach them a small lesson..sorry about this horrible experience...
I'll bet you anything she gives them a big part of her commission back, which is why she does what she does. I really think we need more regulation in our industry.
More regulation and a buyer agency agreement may be the answer but its a complicated issue legally and marketing wise.
Best of luck this year with your business!
Bruce Fecteau Realtor Century 21 Orange County http://www.century21-orangecounty.com
The first meeting should be at Starbux, or the office, the buyers home or apartment or anywhere - but NOT the listing that the buyer is interested in. I'm not sure what actually happened, but it looks there might be a problem out there. I hope I get one of those calls b/c its fun to educate another agents client when they call me.
BTW, My loyal clients, are trained (or least the conversation has taken place and verbally agreed to) to replace any other listings phone number with mine. I even ask them to hand out my business card to any other RE agent that they may come in contact with.
Boy, how I can relate to this blog. I am a buyer's agent and I can't count the times I've received calls from potential buyers' wanting to see a home, and say they aren't working with an agent. I spend my time, gas and wear and tear on my car showing them listings that aren't even mine only to hear them finally admit they do in fact have an agent that couldn't show the listings for one reason or another. EXCUSE ME?
I don't get paid unless I sell a house and since I don't list property, I don't have a chance of making a commission on the other side of the deal while I'm out showing other agents properties. Why can't people just be HONEST?
I need to spend my time and effort on clients who will use me as their agent, I don't have time to do other agents jobs. Why would anyone want to use an agent who wants to be paid for nothing?
I carry A BAA with me, so when I meet a buyer and the agreement is signed, I'm protected to preview the property. Shouldn't every agent use this protocol prior to showing a property?
Melissa: BINGO!
Joel: We not only asked once on the phone but, we asked via email (have it in writing) and a third time, in person! The buyer lied to us--either on her own accord or following the instructions of her agent.
Shanna: Exactly what our plans are from now on...too many 'burns' is just not worth our valuable time spent on a wild-goose chase!
Marc: How true is that? What DID they do to deserve ANYthing from the sellers--OR the buyers for that matter!?
Carol: Hmm...I think we may have the very same callers! Pulling the 'couples' prank happens all the time. I guess it's like the child going to each parent and saying that the other said it was okay... :-)
#68. I agree that should be pursued--for certain!
Melissa: I often wonder if they DO have BA's? I just cannot imagine having the knowledge that we have to get through a residential purchase. This is completely foolish behavior because if they think they're going to save X%, then they should also realize that we can save them TWO TIMES x%!
Robert: I do the same thing with active buyers who prefer to drive around first--perhaps going to open houses or model homes...it is the best way to protect our interest AND the clients themselves!
Hi Debe, We have a few low service agencies in our area. One in particular that offers the buyer an incentive towards closing costs if they use the listing agents for all showings and other visits to the home. They have the buyers trained not to really tell the listing agents this when they call. On one hand, if I am serving my listing / seller, then it's a part of my services to them to make the home available. But, sometimes we have other agents who we give our sign calls to. They go out of their way to show the homes to capture buyer leads only to find the buyer is working with one of these low-service agencies in order to get a kick-back of sorts. It got so bad originally that many agents added comments to the commission section of the listing stating that agent must be present at all showings, inspections etc.. or commission is reduced to "X".
It's unbelievable how lazy some agents are and what they are able to get away with. Are their clients undo hypnosis where they are only able to follow the instructions of their agent... and those instructions direct them to other agents to serve them...? Meanwhile , commissions are made via unethical practice. Maybe these agents need to be reported to their brokers, etc. on a more regular basis.
I am trying to get in the habit of signing the buyer agency before I show homes for this very reason. Right now I have a house in escrow with a buyer that HAD an agent who was too busy to show her homes. She told me out front her agent (friend) told her to call other agents to show the homes and then go back for to her for the offers.
She felt it wasn't right, wrote the offer with me, and still has not told her agent (friend) she is in escrow...
This seems more common with internet leads. However, I know of a company that says if they only have to show the client 5 homes they will give them a rebate at closing - which basically begs the buyers to call the listing agent to see other homes they want to see because if they have their agent show more than 5 homes they don't get the money back...besides, working outside of your scope is a Code of Ethics violiation too.
It amazes me that in such a service orientated industry some people can provide such crappy service AND GET AWAY WITH IT!
That is wrong on so many levels, and just plain laziness on the agent's part. There's no way that is representing the best interest of a client. It's sad that the buyers lied to you about their agency agreement, and I'll bet they were urged to do that by their own agent. It seems that those with no morals and ethics do stick together.
Debe- This just makes me 'spittin' mad! I agree with the comment of making them sign the agency contract on the hood of the car before you let them in... something sinister in me LOVES this conundrum for the liar buyer.. LOL! And seriously, unless the buyer is related to this lazy agent who the heck would want that kind of represenation?? does she give a rebate or something?
Bad agents suck and make the rest of us look bad. I would file a Procurring Cause claim as well. If the buyer's have a Buyer's Rep with the other out-of-town agent, then they could owe that agent a commission. Also, I would publish that agent's name. The Code of Ethics only protects agains lies, not agains the truth.
So she probably just ends up writing the offer for the house they choose? Referring to another agent makes a lot more sense, this will get her in trouble. I wonder why the buyer is still working with the agent!
Debe,
That is quite infuriating. The buyer either lied of their own accord or were coached to lie by that agent. I liked Deb Brooks' suggest that the listing should say "agent must accompany buyer". Would change things up quite a bit.
Sounds like a referral fee to me. I have had agents try that on my listings. If the agent tells me they can't show the house I tell them I have no problem paying a referral fee not full commission. That usually changes the rules. Builders use the agent must accompany buyer to get a commission. Works for me.
#64 That was the best comment. Others said similar to the same effect, but the tone and wording was awesome. It must be a Missouri "SHOW ME"
Hey Mike- Thanks for the Kudos;) I loved the look on their faces when I did that and drove away...
I'm not an agent though I've worked with many during purchase and sale of 8 homes. I totally agree with Shanna Hall, repsonse #64.
Shanna: You ARE spot-on with that one. The thing is...they may have wasted your time to get to that point but, if they won't sign and you still show them the house, you have at least 15 more minutes of your time that you will have wasted if they're being deceitful! SMART GIRL! I love it!
Debe: That is appalling behavior. Both for the Buyer and the Agent. Is there a website to expose the agent's names when they are working unethically? It would be nice for listing agenets to know when they receive offers from agents who do these things. I would likely counsel my sellers to think twice before accepting an offer presented by this type of agent. This kind of [non] service needs to stop. It just isn't fair to the consumer OR the agents who do the work for them.
I fully agree with the comments #20 & #52 which refer to using wording in the MLS that states the buyer's side commission will be 1% if the buyer's agent doesn't show the property themselves. It may not be necessary to use all of the time, but could certainly be added to the listing when we receive a call from a buyer to show our own listings.
The Buyer Representation Agreement would probably be best to have though, in any situation.
I agree with that as well, Jeff but, this buyer was not looking at one of our properties. They THOUGHT they were since it was included in an IDX feed on our site.
I've dealt with this type of agent as well. They coach their clients to lie in order to get the LA to show the house and don't get involved unless an offer is written (and that is all they do). I do not understand how these people stay in the business or manage to attract clients and keep them. Do these buyers not know they could have so much better if they only did a little due diligence?
I don't mind showing a home to a buyer who is truthful and tells me they have an agent because I do feel an obligation to my seller to do what it takes to sell their home. I do not drop everything I am doing for that buyer, but do work them in and communicate with their agent and let them know what is going on. Maybe that is dumb on my part but I feel it is the right thing to do for the sellers.
Thanks for the rant, lots of people feel your pain!
Thanks Debra and Debe- I know that when I first started in the business 10 years ago, I showed an agent in my companies listing and then the people came with a contract from another agent... I vowed to never let that happen again. I missed out on $4,500.00... Lesson was learned loud and clear! I actually went to the board of SLAR (St. Louis Association of Realtors) and asked them to create a specific form for these situations.
Just add clause to your MLS listing, that the co-op will only be 1/2 of 1% for agents that weren't at the initial showing to the buyers, which includes open houses, unless an exemption is obtained from the listing agent prior to the showing.
Take away the room for kickbacks, and if they want to do the work on the buyers side for that price fine.
I would argue procuring cause and not pay her a dime on the commission. I do not mind when an out of town agent calls me on occasion and ask me to show a home for them, but this is a practice and abusive.
Well, there are all types that's for sure. I'm not totally sure that we should blame the agent altogether. Why suddenly did the buyers understand they had an agent after looking with yours? Can everyone be that dumb or are they smart like a fox? Most listing agents bend over backwards for a showing & to be helpful & in this case have been taken advantage of that's for sure.
I'd wait for that call that will come someday & tell her she's getting nothing. You'll have the board decide on her fiduciary position & have them hold her commission check until then. On the listing side, you have that control. :-)
Debe
You are so right about this being wrong on so many levels and fields. I just dont get it at times why people are so lazy
We are required to do the agency paperwork at our first scheduled face to face meeting. These agents are definitely abusing the system!
Debe- lots of fun things in your blogs. I will subscribe to your blogs
Thanks, Irgi! And, thanks to everyone who commented! Funny but, each time I come back to this, I can feel my blood pressure rise! Arrgh!
Hi Debe - This is a pet peeve of mine. If you don't know the area, refer the clients to someone who does! I have also had to deal with a listing that my clients were buying where the listing agent lived and worked over 100 miles away and had never seen the property. She asked me to tell her whether her sign was up, whether her lockbox was on and where it was, and when we were in escrow, she left the country on a 3 week vacation! No one in her office even knew anything about the listing and I couldn't reach her until she returned.
We ended up having to extend the escrow, and then after it closed she asked me to meet the sign and lockbox guys to make sure they did what they were supposed to do. I found I was busy that day - no matter what day it was going to be - and she was mad at me! She didn't even know how to get to the area, let alone the house.
Hi Debe, the gaul of some agents, really, unfortunately, it does not surprise me anymore...I had a similar situation with a listing of mine right here on my own street, several years ago. It was my listing, a neighbor referred a friend to come view my listing, they contacted me, I agreed to show it to them, went through the whole explanation about agency, etc...said she needed to bring her father back which I showed him to. And then miraculously I receive an offer from another agent a short time later from the daughter and her father after they told me they did not have an agent....This agent basically expressed the same attitude your agent above did. Unbelievable.
I used to have a form with a list of properties that I was going to show to a buyer and a statement signed by the buyer that if they decide to buy one of the properties that i show them they understand that they will buy it through me and have that signed along with the agency form. Both forms get signed prior to any showings. Sounds like it is time to start doing this again. Of course if this agent is 35 miles away and comes time for the inspection someone will need a key, won't they? Listing agents always have the power don't forget.
I am also finding this with agents in my own area. They don't have time to call the listing agents for information and have the clients do it. One of these clients told me that their agent will write the contract when they find the home they want. How can they think this is okay in any form? Of course I answer their questions and show the home because that is in my seller's best interests. But it is so not fair!
That agent should only get a referral fee, at best. That's all I would pay her and then she can yell and scream all she wants. Let's see if she could claim procuring cause. Let's see if her customer lies under oath about being told to lie to you about not having an agent.
I've never had this happen to me, but I would be just as frustrated as you if it did. I can't imagine the absolute audacity for an agent to send their clients to the listing agent to do all the work, and yet they want to write the contract and make the commission. I'm sure a strong procuring cause argument could be made, but perhaps you don't want to bark up that tree. It's definitely a shame...